Keira Bell - SUCCESS! Children protected from experimental puberty blockers and lifelong changes

RomanesEuntDomus

Well-known member
The funny thing was that where my mum worked there were a lot of gay blokes around; she even talked about going to a conference somewhere and being the only middle-aged straight woman there, in a way that referenced Les Dawson's non-PC dominoes line. She has never been homophobic but tends to talk about sexual matters in a briskly unshockable, matter of fact way, which has an odd habit of putting one off discussing complicated emotions.
 

DinosaurChickens

Well-known member
The funny thing was that where my mum worked there were a lot of gay blokes around; she even talked about going to a conference somewhere and being the only middle-aged straight woman there, in a way that referenced Les Dawson's non-PC dominoes line. She has never been homophobic but tends to talk about sexual matters in a briskly unshockable, matter of fact way, which has an odd habit of putting one off discussing complicated emotions.
That sounds very Jam and Jerusalem. I'm interested to know how that doesn't work for complicated emotions, if you are OK to explain.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

Well-known member
That sounds very Jam and Jerusalem. I'm interested to know how that doesn't work for complicated emotions, if you are OK to explain.
Well...it's kind of detached, is the best way I can think of to explain it. She talked about sex from an observer's POV; she looked at behaviour, was aware that certain things were done, but she didn't invite any conversation about the inner experience of it, at all. I think she was wary of intrusion.
 

DinosaurChickens

Well-known member
Well...it's kind of detached, is the best way I can think of to explain it. She talked about sex from an observer's POV; she looked at behaviour, was aware that certain things were done, but she didn't invite any conversation about the inner experience of it, at all. I think she was wary of intrusion.
That sounds like she was OK with the theory of it all and OK with 'each to their own' but definitely not comfy with the emotional component of 'what people choose, need and want to do' in the privacy of their own sexual lives.
Sounds like she was theoretically progressive and good with personal and private choice, but not good or comfy to 'go there' emotionally.
Is that how it was?

That sounds very much like loads of my friends Mothers who were of a 1930's- 1940's birth and of an Anglican upbringing where acceptance of difference was absolutely polite and right, but getting into it emotionally was absolutely not a thing to do. Always wonder if this was a throw back to Greek Stoicism and classicism where Anglicans were taught that 'emotional stuff' was anathema to logical and reasonable society.

As an Autist I can see the merits, but also the pitfalls of not being able to bare your heart to your closest people in life.
 
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RomanesEuntDomus

Well-known member
Sounds like she was theoretically progressive and good with personal and private choice, but not good or comfy to 'go there' emotionally.
Is that how it was?
I'd say it was, yes. I've always found her tricky to navigate when her emotions are raw; it's as if our boundaries both completely dissolve and I can't distinguish her fears and mine. That was my childhood as a 'not normal' child whose mother was constantly fighting my corner against a world she felt was all too ready to chuck me on the scrapheap.

More pertinently, her own childhood was tough, traditionally rural working class, with religion part of the landscape if not part of her beliefs. This wasn't an environment conducive to analysing emotion or exploring sexuality.
 

DinosaurChickens

Well-known member
I'd say it was, yes. I've always found her tricky to navigate when her emotions are raw; it's as if our boundaries both completely dissolve and I can't distinguish her fears and mine. That was my childhood as a 'not normal' child whose mother was constantly fighting my corner against a world she felt was all too ready to chuck me on the scrapheap.

More pertinently, her own childhood was tough, traditionally rural working class, with religion part of the landscape if not part of her beliefs. This wasn't an environment conducive to analysing emotion or exploring sexuality.
How are you now with her, have things changed as you have come into your own sense of an adult self? Has she been able to relax as life has become less protective and more safe?
 

Horses Gallore

Well-known member
Mind you, I almost preferred mum's approach to having to take my 15 year old daughter to the chemist and show her which condoms were the non-latex ones, so she could carry them, since guys would only have the usual Durex. I was matter of fact about it, and gave her due warning about the legalities of underage sex and also her particular risks with both sex and pregnancy, but it wasn't a comfortable talk. As there had already been one pregnancy in her year at school, I didn't want to leave it any longer. She was actually remarkably sensible initially about sex, but it didn't last. At least she wasn't a teenage mum.

This is not the daughter who is currently living with me (and leaving in 5 days... not that I'm counting)
 

RomanesEuntDomus

Well-known member
How are you now with her, have things changed as you have come into your own sense of an adult self? Has she been able to relax as life has become less protective and more safe?
We get on better as adults with our own space, certainly. But I can see the time coming when I may have to assume something of a protective role myself and I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that.

That sounds very much like loads of my friends Mothers who were of a 1930's- 1940's birth and of an Anglican upbringing where acceptance of difference was absolutely polite and right, but getting into it emotionally was absolutely not a thing to do.
Presbyterian, actually. Even more buttoned up, and not known, at the more zealous end, for tolerance. It's no surprise that alcohol abuse featured strongly among her siblings.
 
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DinosaurChickens

Well-known member
We get on better as adults with our own space, certainly. But I can see the time coming when I may have to assume something of a protective role myself and I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that.


Presbyterian, actually. Even more buttoned up, and not known, at the more zealous end, for tolerance. It's no surprise that alcohol abuse featured strongly among her siblings.
Yes I can imagine how that would be very difficult. It's not easy to care for someone who is massively locked in with their feelings. I think cheerful practically can only carry you so far in life, it's when people start to crumple under pressure that the steam starts coming out of the valves.
Mr DC's Mam was Welsh 'Chapel' Methodist and only really talked to her minister about 'life stuff' at the end of her life and after she passed he said she was still a closed book to him to all intents and purposes, despite him spending hours with her.
I think some people just never do 'intimacy of feeling' it's sad, but it's not you either. It's just their 'cultural tradition' of 'bearing up'.
Weird how many come from old school Anglican, Presbyterian and Methodist traditions.
I suppose Catholicism has confession going for it and an encouragement to unburden of sin and pride so older RC people feel they are doing it right to let their human stuff hang out for absolution and compassion.
I'm not particularly religious, but I am very interested in religion and it's effects on people as I went to an RC School and was raised in a very Catholic Parish. So I have noticed this and the cultural differences in those traditions as well.
The alcohol part is interesting, I think drinking and repressed feelings often go hand in hand.
I hope you are OK, it's not easy to deal with loving parents who are emotional strangers. My Father is autistic and he is very much a man of no obviously loving communications. I spent years wondering if he felt anything at all. I think he feels something but my jury is still out on exactly how that works in his head or heart.
Not easy. DC x
 
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