'Track and Trace' to combat Covid 19. Is it really going to work long term when shit like THIS happens?!

Millie

Well-known member
On Twitter yesterday.

A young woman went to a pub last week, and gave her name and contact number to the bartender (as requested by HM Gov.) He put her name and number into his personal mobile phone, and then started messaging her, asking her out. Too shy to talk to the pretty girl, but NOT too shy (seemingly) to poach her personal information, and start stalking her.

Some of the replies on the thread on twitter make for grim reading. LOADS of young women on there coming out with similar tales,.. being contacted by men after giving their name and phone number for something (when it was requested.) One woman said she has an unusual name, and when SHE was serving in a cafe once, she served a man who noted her name, and then stalked her on facebook and started messaging her, telling much he wants to go out with her.

I heard a few days ago, that some people were giving false details to pubs and cafes... I'm not surprised. This behaviour is disgusting. I hope she reports it to the police or the ICO to be honest. Creepy as fuck!


 
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Hotsoapywater

Well-known member
Hum,

Firstly, any person can refuse to hand over their information - just FYI for anybody. It is not mandatory.

It is quite something that bar tenders are using this method. I think this is a flaw in the process. A lack of training on the storing, use and sharing of personal information by an organisation.

The organisation runs risks of being fined for misuse of personal information and should also refer themselves to the ICO. I hope people send in SAR request to the organisation if this happens.

As for name tags - not really much can be done about this.
 

Seeitnowsorted

Well-known member
This is what I’ve been waiting to happen too - surely making people register, then either then scanning a QR code in order to place an order (or phoning a registration number if not a smart phone holder) would make more sense so that everyone in that area would be automatically on a list to be able to receive an automated message back if a person subsequently tests positive? The info could be automatically selected after 14 days. And before the civil liberties question gets raised then I think global pandemic overrides this one

And name tags? Years ago my sister put in a complaint about being made to wear a full name tag (and this was before SM days), backed up by her union. After that everyone was given the option to use a false name for ID purposes only
 

Conks

Member
This probably happens a lot elsewhere with data protection but we just don’t hear about it. The person was probably young and stupid and doesn’t realise the serious implications. To blame test and trace is silly though. are you saying we should stop it because of this? pre covid, you gave the same details when booking tickets, restaurants etc it’s certainly nothing new. This sort of things happens all the time but the media seems to hate test and trace and will try to bring it down anyway possible.
 

Hotsoapywater

Well-known member
This probably happens a lot elsewhere with data protection but we just don’t hear about it. The person was probably young and stupid and doesn’t realise the serious implications. To blame test and trace is silly though. are you saying we should stop it because of this? pre covid, you gave the same details when booking tickets, restaurants etc it’s certainly nothing new. This sort of things happens all the time but the media seems to hate test and trace and will try to bring it down anyway possible.
I do agree. We hand over personal information regularly and have done for years.

While test and trace has been criticised, it has illustrated the sloppy use of data and is being used as a scapegoat to address the issue.

The upside is, GDPR is a very handy and service-user friendly, piecd of legislation. Instead of shouting on social media, if data is misused, the act is there to protect people.
 

Raffles

Well-known member
Another case of law of unintended consequences which no one considered when advising contact details were to be taken. In the rush for business to intrepret guidance as mandatory, they forgot some members of the population would use the data inappropriately. If a business insists on taking details they should have installed a mechanism where the data was protected from the start, a piece of paper left for all to see, or individual members of staff taking certain people's data only is not acceptable.

Prior to now when people booked a table it was most likely to be done by a method where it was not face to face just a name and number given. Still open to abuse but the person taking the booking could not see who was booking, it was just a name and therefore not possible to know if it was a woman they would like to try and "take out". Secondly the data taken is in far lesser amounts than now. The everyone must give their details to walk into somewhere versus a name to book a table means more chances to misuse that data.

As an example, my husband and I purchased an ice cream yesterday, we were told it was mandatory to take our contact details and pay by card. They were incorrect on both pieces of information. We did not give our details and paid by cash.

If people want to give their details fine, but they also have to be aware of the possible misuse of that data and assess the risk and also make themselves fully aware it is not mandatory.

GDPR is there for a reason, I am not sure, would need to check, if it is one of the casualties of the current measures.
 
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Millie

Millie

Well-known member
This probably happens a lot elsewhere with data protection but we just don’t hear about it. The person was probably young and stupid and doesn’t realise the serious implications. To blame test and trace is silly though. are you saying we should stop it because of this? pre covid, you gave the same details when booking tickets, restaurants etc it’s certainly nothing new. This sort of things happens all the time but the media seems to hate test and trace and will try to bring it down anyway possible.
I didn't say we should stop track and trace, so don't put words in my mouth. As a few posters have said, there is clearly a flaw in the system, people ARE giving false details, and a number of other women have complained about similar things happening with track and trace. So maybe it does need to have its obvious flaws sorted out!

You seem more pissed off with me posting this article about the girl who has been stalked, than the fact that a young woman has had her personal rights violated, her information taken by a man who works in the pub she went to, and has been stalked, and private messaged by this random man.

And so what if you give similar details when you book tickets, and tables in restaurants?! As @Raffles said above ^, when you book tickets and tables in restaurants, you generally don't give your FULL name and phone number to a random man serving you; it's taken over the phone by the person who does the booking as a job.

And yeah, we DO give details at other times other than track and trace, and maybe the frequency and regularity of this needs to stop too. I get asked for my email address and mobile phone number quite regularly. Shopkeepers ask for an email address, so they can email you your receipt, (but bizarrely give a paper copy as well more often than not.) Also, randoms on the street trying to sell me stuff ask for it, (and my mobile phone number,) the pharmacy wants it so they can 'text me' when my prescription is ready, and many more...

I have had to block a few people and companies too, as I get CONSTANTLY spammed with emails and texts, and sometimes phone calls, offering me shit I neither want, or need! (And it's the same for many others I know..) And, as a few people have illustrated above, some people WILL misuse the information.

I thank GOD that I am not a young woman now, as the opportunities to be stalked and harassed are much more than when I was a lot younger.

I know a lot of young women who have had similar problems with their name tags too, especially when they have an unusual name. They have waited on someone in a restaurant, and have been messaged and stalked by him on facebook.

What can we do about this? Stopping name tags on everyone for a start. Why is it necessary anyway? Just give them a number.

Sounds extreme? Fuck it. The safety and welfare of people is more important than knowing their name. We live in a different world, where it's much easier to stalk and harass people. So things need to change. And as I said, no wonder people are giving fake details (for track and trace) to the pubs and cafes etc...
 
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Hotsoapywater

Well-known member
I think what has been raised is how often people hand over data to all manner of places.

Social media alone.

Name = one piece of data
DoB = one piece of data
Email = one piece of data

Then, what do people do, put on (not here or forums) they're going on holiday. Or innocently put a picture of their front door with the number on..

Not long for an opportunist burglar to work out:

Name
Address
DoB

And they're on holiday.
 
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Millie

Millie

Well-known member
I think what has been raised is how often people hand over data to all manner of places.

Social media alone.

Name = one piece of data
DoB = one piece of data
Email = one piece of data

Then, what do people do, put on (not here or forums) they're going on holiday. Or innocently put a picture of their front door with the number on..

Not long for an opportunist burglar to work out:

Name
Address
DoB

And they're on holiday.
I agree Soapy, that people do need to take some personal responsibility too. I have NEVER told people (on FB,) that I am going on holiday next week (for example.) Even if you only have personal friends and family on FB, there is still an element of risk. Posting pics when you're ON holiday is a bit crazy!
 

Raffles

Well-known member
I think what has been raised is how often people hand over data to all manner of places.

Social media alone.

Name = one piece of data
DoB = one piece of data
Email = one piece of data

Then, what do people do, put on (not here or forums) they're going on holiday. Or innocently put a picture of their front door with the number on..

Not long for an opportunist burglar to work out:

Name
Address
DoB

And they're on holiday.
Sadly agree with this but so wish people wouldn't do it. I don't, I also do not give an email for a receipt in a shop, luckily do not have any social media accounts and am very careful where I give details to. I also have a "junk" email address and PAYG mobile if forced to provide details, neither of which I ever check or turn on!

In the context of this thread, the obvious manipulation by many that providing details for track and trace is mandatory is wrong both by the business premises, the local councils and trade bodies but also the willingness of people to accept what they are told. Just like many aspects of these measures, because it is covid it trumps any other issues, in this case data protection and more importantly the safety of indivduals.
 

Hotsoapywater

Well-known member
I agree Soapy, that people do need to take some personal responsibility too. I have NEVER told people (on FB,) that I am going on holiday next week (for example.) Even if you only have personal friends and family on FB, there is still an element of risk. Posting pics when you're ON holiday is a bit crazy!
It is madness that still, so many people hand over data so recklessly without considering.

However, that doesn't give anybody the right to misuse and where TaT is in place, at hospitality outlets, it needs attention or owners will find themselves on trouble.

Overall, it has been a mess, and organisations have been expected to get ready very quickly for this if they weren't set up taking personal information previously.

As for men using this to seek out women they have taken a liking to? That is an age old problem brought yo the forefront again, because of a system that looks a great concept in theory, yet poor policy in practice and risk levels such as the safety of young women, hasn't been considered.
 
OP
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Millie

Millie

Well-known member
Sadly agree with this but so wish people wouldn't do it. I don't, I also do not give an email for a receipt in a shop, luckily do not have any social media accounts and am very careful where I give details to. I also have a "junk" email address and PAYG mobile if forced to provide details, neither of which I ever check or turn on!

In the context of this thread, the obvious manipulation by many that providing details for track and trace is mandatory is wrong both by the business premises, the local councils and trade bodies but also the willingness of people to accept what they are told. Just like many aspects of these measures, because it is covid it trumps any other issues, in this case data protection and more importantly the safety of individuals.
Well said Raffles! As you say, too many people are just accepting what they are told without questioning anything. And whilst we all obviously have to be careful (regarding covid19,) we also have to look after our own safety and well-being too.

It is madness that still, so many people hand over data so recklessly without considering.

However, that doesn't give anybody the right to misuse and where TaT is in place, at hospitality outlets, it needs attention or owners will find themselves on trouble.

Overall, it has been a mess, and organisations have been expected to get ready very quickly for this if they weren't set up taking personal information previously.

As for men using this to seek out women they have taken a liking to? That is an age old problem brought yo the forefront again, because of a system that looks a great concept in theory, yet poor policy in practice and risk levels such as the safety of young women, hasn't been considered.
Also, well said soapy!

And on that note I have to fly, as my work is calling! Back later!
 

Raffles

Well-known member
There’s definitely a market for a third party app that takes “check-in” details, stores them, and has the ability to then either pass them on to track and trace or delete them, without the pubs themselves ever having access to the data.
I can see what point you making, but it brings with it concerns for me, intially the presumption everyone has a smartphone and is willing to download the app. How secure is the app, who created it? Finally how secure is the end data and storage, who can access it, what can be done with it and how long is it kept for.
 

Hotsoapywater

Well-known member
Sadly agree with this but so wish people wouldn't do it. I don't, I also do not give an email for a receipt in a shop, luckily do not have any social media accounts and am very careful where I give details to. I also have a "junk" email address and PAYG mobile if forced to provide details, neither of which I ever check or turn on!

In the context of this thread, the obvious manipulation by many that providing details for track and trace is mandatory is wrong both by the business premises, the local councils and trade bodies but also the willingness of people to accept what they are told. Just like many aspects of these measures, because it is covid it trumps any other issues, in this case data protection and more importantly the safety of indivduals.
And as we know, Raffles, it isnt mandatory to give any information. Somebody can simply say 'no'

I think we need to be getting those messages out. They are out in the guidance for businesses.

Using a PAYG sim is ideal for this.
 

IdleWorm

Well-known member
I can see what point you making, but it brings with it concerns for me, intially the presumption everyone has a smartphone and is willing to download the app. How secure is the app, who created it? Finally how secure is the end data and storage, who can access it, what can be done with it and how long is it kept for.
There are obviously security requirements in there that would have to be met, agreed. I was just working off the premise that a specialist app developer would be better placed to navigate GDPR than a pub or restaurant owner.
 

Hotsoapywater

Well-known member
The TaT design is headed up by Dido Harding - the former CEO of Talk Talk who had a massive data leak a few years ago.

I agree Soapy, that people do need to take some personal responsibility too. I have NEVER told people (on FB,) that I am going on holiday next week (for example.) Even if you only have personal friends and family on FB, there is still an element of risk. Posting pics when you're ON holiday is a bit crazy!
It screams - hello, my house is empty.

Personal responsibility is key.
 
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